Lets take this blog to the next level

If you have a photo of crappy show riding, know of a jerkwad trainer or judge, or someone in the show world that is an abusive piece of shit then send the info to me. This blog is not anti-showing, it's anti-abuse. So there is no truth to the claims from the TWH, ASB, western pleasure and dressage zombies that I'm trying to shut showing down. Instead I'm trying to make showing more honest and to get abusive practices out of the showring! Email me at shameinthehorseshowring@gmail.com



I have a request for my readers: If you have successfully rehabbed a show horse, or gotten a rescue and taken it on to a show career then let me know, I'd love to feature you here!






Monday, January 19, 2009

Youtube: Gotta Love It

I’ve been in the horse world since before the Internet was a gleam in Al Gore’s eye. Back in the old days you heard about people’s good and bad horse training through word of mouth or if there was a big abuse case the newspapers might pick it up. Now, thanks to the Internet, we can instantly see the most horrific riding, training, and handling instantly. No need to perk up our shell like ears to catch the occasional story about a BNT or doltish local trainer.

Instead we can type in
  • Youtube
  • and get instant proof that it doesn’t take brains, common sense or even the ability to use opposable thumbs to own a horse. Sadly there is no licensing required to hang out a shingle that says “Trainer” on it. Anyone with a barb wire pen and a bridle can claim they are the next best thing. All it takes is one big win and a “trainer” can become the fad of the year.

    Just to start things off on a pleasant note there is this video. I love the Arabian Liberty class.


    I often wonder what would happen if the stock horse industry took up this class. Could you just see the fat, crippled, no-moving halter horses trying to hobble around the ring? Makes my eyes burn to think about it.


    This class is painful enough, and the horses are held to a slow jog as they line up: Weanlings at halter.



    Looks like a bunch of posts just waiting to be strung with wire. If those legs got any straighter the horses would drive themselves into the ground with every stride.

    Western pleasure trainers just appall me. In their own way they are as bad as the Big Lick trainers. They can preach about breeding horses for those flat top lines all they want, but it doesn’t change the fact that no matter how flat they make that horse’s back the legs are still required to move forward and back in order to propel the horse forward. Legs have three joints, but WP horses look like they don't have any joints.



    I almost need a new keyboard after watching that one. The horses move like they have sticks in their legs and the riders look like they are struggling to stay balanced. What is with the “pluck -n- spur” shit? We can tell every time the horse gets a jab.



    Hunter under saddle? Or bloodhound under saddle? The last time I saw an animal with their nose pointed at the ground like that it was hunting for escaped convicts.



    And let's not forget our buddy Mr. Wells. Here’s a clinic clip where someone is proud he rode their horse. They have no idea how lucky their horse is that he only rode it once.




    WTF? He’s overflexing the hell out of this horse and dropping him behind the vertical every second. You aren’t doing anything but ruining the bars of this horse’s mouth and making him drop his shoulders when he should be lifting them to collect. Stop! Stop, stop, stop, doing this shit! Get your heavy hands off that horse’s mouth and learn to fricking create a balanced bridled horse. No wonder reiners are notorious for tail blocking, look at that poor horse switching his tail in aggravation. Ears pinned mean that the horse is uncomfortable or mad.



    This isn’t natural people, I don’t care how the horse is bred it looks stiff, stilted and miserable.



    Pleasure clinic? I don’t think so. Torture clinic maybe. Tug, spur, tug, spur, it's a vicious cycle. My, look at those pinned ears. I’d hide every copy of this video if I was the trainer.




    I’m offering you this video of a wonderful dressage ASB as a pre-apology for the next few videos showing ASBs and TWHs.




    EWWWWW!



    This shit should not exist in this day and age.



    I seriously think there is a brain washing cult in Tennessee that convinces people that this kind of shit is okay and doesn’t hurt the horse. Somewhere there is a vat of grape kool aid that has enough brain altering drugs in it for an entire show industry to be built on.



    And while this isn’t a training video it is an interesting tidbit to view. Now we know how they do it.


    It’s because of the above videos that I get a laugh every time someone bitches about me not knowing what I’m talking about. Do tell!

    40 comments:

    Megan said...

    A teeny-tiny nitpick in a sea of f'ed-uppedness: QH people, PLEASE stop putting those hideous fake tails on your horses. It makes them look like goldfish. (Although it makes the youtube videos of your class even funnier when the horse steps on the fake tail and it falls off...)

    Gail said...

    Cleve gives a great demonstration of why some trainers are called "jerk and spur". A bump is slow and soft, my trainer would slap my hands if I did that! Thank goodness there are good trainers out there if someone cares to time to research.

    I would like to see the pleasure horses go forward so their jogs are even and they don't use their heads to lope - up and down, up and down.

    Jess9687 said...

    Wow I have never seen anything like all that stuff seeing as I am a person from Australia who is not at all involved in the 'western' show world.

    That 'jog' (?) maybe that they make them do in the pleasure just looks stupid.

    Hunters ??? HUNTERS? I would love to see them go over fences with their heads like that ... oh wait, no i wouldn't.

    And the TWH's ... what is WITH that? Looks weird and uncomfortable.

    Pipkin said...

    Those WP horses jogging remind me of my cat when she is trying to sneak across the room and not be seen by the other cat.

    I used to ride hunters, and man, my horses never looked like this. I'm with Jess9687, these horses do no look like a horse I'd ride over any hunt course, not even over cavaletti!

    The judges should be ashamed of what they are doing to those horses.

    Tuffy Horse said...

    The scary thing is that people WITHIN the industry pretend that this stuff doesn't exist. And when an outsider comments on it they get blasted for not "knowing what they are talking about". This kind of attitude is so wrong. Sometimes we need an outside perspective to show us what we are doing wrong.

    It saddens me that WP and HUS have become the jokes that they are. I remember when a good WP horse could compete all day, in everything from WP to trail to games and cattle classes. Seems a shame that by specializing our horses we have limited their futures.


    Tracy M
    http://thehorsediary.blogspot.com/

    Mary H. said...

    From what I've seen of the liberty classes (only online videos, so please people, give me more info or correct me if I'm wrong) I not sure I really like them that much.

    Of the ones I've seen, most seem to fit into two categories.

    In many I've seen, the handler is continually running towards the horse, making sudden movements, raising a whip, shaking a bottle, etc. to inspire the slower horse to keep moving. Often this seems to turn into less of a "Horse at Liberty" class, and more of a "Let's Chase the Horse around the Ring" class. Miniature horse owners seem to be especially guilty of this. However, it does tend to be damn funny to watch.

    In the other category, the horses appear like those Arabs. Beautiful, high movements, flashy, ears forward, horse looks like it could run for days and days and days....IMO, most of these horses also look like they probably haven't been turned out in days and days and days. They have this look on their face like "I'm Freeeeee!", which is I guess what they're being judged on, but I assume it's at the price of locking them in stalls for most of their days.

    GoLightly said...

    Ok, did anyone watch the GirlScout Soring Video, embedded in the bottom vid?
    I can't watch any more. My eyes and my feet hurt.

    Wow.
    Too much to take in.

    Incredible post, TJM.
    BraVO!

    GoLightly said...

    Oh, I loved the first Liberty Stallion (grey) admiring/spooking at his tail
    Thanks again.

    Reddunappy said...

    Can you find some video of this "spur stop" thing? it actually came up at a 4-H fair, and a small one. just curious, as I have never seen it done, only heard about it.

    all I can say is poor animals. I watched a show about cats the other day, and in 30 years you would not know the siamese was one of todays siamese, sickening too. What humans do for a buck and "noteriety"

    Serendipity said...

    Reddunappy-

    I hate the modern Siamese. I have no idea why they changed the breed when to me the old applehead was perfect. Yeah, they reduced the kinks in the tails and the cross-eyes, but they made them look like big rodents.

    Kendra said...

    I was on the Horse Judging Team at Purdue Universtiy in the late 90's and I always had a hard time watching and then having to place these kinds of horses...because I knew the official placing would follow along the industry lines, I had to place them if I wanted the points. I preferred a horse that could actually move like it was supposed to and perform the proper gaits with the correct beats...canter/lope is 3, not 4. Trot/jog is 2, not 4. I *hate* the horrible "wogs" and "wopes" that are so common in the western pleasure ring.

    After college I judged some open shows and made some folks really angry when I placed a forward moving but maybe not 100% perfect WP horse over an over-trained, woggy/wopey horse. I apparently was a rarity, but I just couldn't support that kind of horrible movement just because it was (and unfortunately still is) the IN thing to do.

    Trojan Mouse said...

    Reddunappy,

    >Can you find some video of this "spur stop" thing? it actually came up at a 4-H fair, and a small one. just curious, as I have never seen it done, only heard about it.

    I will look around and see if I can find one. If I do I'll add it to the front page and put UPDATED next to the blog heading

    Jean

    URAn4ssHat said...

    The Arab class looked like fun!

    WTF?!? Were those LIP CHAINS on those weanlings? Seriously? And jeez, how many of them were sore as hell?

    The WP looked like a bunch of dead horses... doing something. It didn't look like walking, jogging OR loping. Mostly just staggering around in painfully slow circles. Ugh. And those tails couldn't look any more cadaverous if they were dead... oh wait! They ARE dead, and fake too!

    Hunter Under Saddle was just a nightmare. Is this supposed to look like WP in English tack? Maybe a TAD faster.

    Now we know why that poor horse everyone is up in arms over had bone frags in his jaw! "Pick his jaw up" If I heard that once more, I might have puked. In fact, I might have thrown up in my mouth a little.
    Cleve made your horse BUCK you idiot! Aren't you PROUD your horse was ridden by him???

    The reiner looked miserable. There was no praise, release, nothing for the poor thing. Shit. Get off already!

    The 2 yr WP filly is simply miserable. And sore as hell from the looks of it. Why don't the gaits look different from each other? I could sit on my couch at home if I didn't want to move even a little.

    That clinic horse might need therapy after that!

    The Dressage was nice! Pretty lead changes.

    The gaited horses... just ew. The TWHs cantering looked like some sort of cartoon or something. And I am surprised they don't fall off those damn shoes!

    It amazes me that "fads" are the way to go. Whatever happened to natural? Like as in well trained, no added gimmicks? A horse that moves well, is sound, and isn't a parody of an actual horse?
    I know, I know. Fads are all the rage. Too bad we can't have the fad of HAPPY HORSES!

    Vectormom said...

    I will never ever show my gorgeous WP trained AQHA mare at an AQHA show because of the crappy way you have to make them move to win. Those videos do show what AQHA thinks is the best of the best. I love my pleasure mare but I do make her go forward and she is starting to learn that it's okay not to do a jog almost in 'piaffe' mode (aka pissed off mode) and she doesn't have to drag her chin on the ground or tuck head between her legs. That's a hard habit to break but she's learning it's okay to be a horse and let the joints on her legs bend.
    TWH video is just WTF??? How can anyone see anything natural about that movement??
    Dressage on any breed - it looks like the rider is f'in the saddle when they lean back and spur spur spur!! You really don't see much bend in the turns just a swift slide of the haunches around the corners.
    Sad that to win in upper levels of most disciplines you have to ride an artificial horse and when you know what you're doing you can't show anymore and win.
    I love to show but even at backyard shows people are harsh and over react to the tiniest of ill movement from their horse. It's disgusting. They give us their all no matter what and then they get wapped in the mouth and spurred on the side.

    katphoti said...

    Mary H.,

    I TOTALLY agree with you. I hate At Liberty classesa nd think they're the most idiotic thing on the planet. The worst was when I was a judge for a small horse show and the At Liberty class was exactly what you said--chase the horse around the ring and then try to catch him. I almost got run over I don't know how many times, and the majority of the horses could not be caught. It was SO stupid. I placed the horses that showed respect for me as the judge and would either go around me or stop next to me and respect my space and the ones that could actually be caught when the time was up.

    As a supporter of sound TWHs, I do want to let all of you know that the TWHs in the built-up stacks are in constant pain and are usually sored. Soring is the practice of causing pain to the horse's front limbs (mechanical or chemical) to force him to lift his legs higher. The result is what you see in the show ring. The more crouch in the hind end and the more reach in the front, the more ribbons the horse wins. If you want to learn more, check out my blog at For the Tennessee Walking Horse

    Please be sure to check out the NATURAL going horses in these videos. This is what the breed was originally bred to do, not with all the pain and suffering. Your eyes will be MUCH happier when you see these videos!

    National Walking Horse Association 2008 National Championships This is my favorite sound horse group.

    Papa's Royal Delight One of my favorite stallions.

    Hardcastle's Prime Sun I think this guy has a bit heavier shoe on at the beginning of the video, but he is sound. I personally would never use a heavy shoe, but I don't see anything wrong with it as long as the horse is conditioned correctly and it is sound.

    When the Rain Horse Comes
    The Murder of the English Language

    Amanda Nicole said...

    I think this is a fair representation of the debauchery that is the horse world on Youtube. All I have to say is:

    1) Stock horse "hunters" will never cease to baffle me. Do they know what HUNTER means??!!??!! Can't they just call it English Pleaure? Or English Stock Seat? Something besides "hunter" because those horses would certainly be the laughing stock of a hunting party. They wouldn't see a fence coming let alone jump it nice and rounded out. And it pisses me off when I go to open shows and these kind of peanut pushers place over my TB because he happens to not carry his topline like a 2x4 and his trot and canter are not simply sped up versions of the jog/lope. GRRR! Get real stock horse people- that is nothing near "hunter". (And the fake tails- so unnatural its laughable... take the time and grow out a nice REAL tail pleaseeeeeeeee!)

    2) THANK GOD I was introduced to the humane side of the TWH industry. I can honestly say those big lick animals are nothing short of freakish. They look like praying mantises on crack or something. I mean- seriously??? People think that looks good. It's a pity that breed is so tainted by cash mongers with no regard for the beauty of a naturally beautifully moving horses and a kind hearted honest breed.

    Whiskey Chick said...

    Just as side note... Just because a walker is flat shod does not mean it is not sored. Kudos to the NWHA for trying. But the last black horse with the blue ribbon walking diagonal was either sore or a big lick taken off pads. I used to show trail pleasure with my walker which is a flat shod natural class. I quit showing because i got tired of losing to the horses i watched get chemicals poured and rubbed on at the trailers. For a while i thought i just might beat them and show them it doesnt take pain. I was wrong. The judges place the high steppers whether its natural or not.

    Meghan/Blatant Animal-Related Idiocy said...

    Ugh, the WP videos. I just sit here trying to refrain from screaming, "MOVE, dammit, MOVE!" at the computer screen. I can't even watch the whole thing. It's like watching paint dry, only more painful.

    The HUS classes really irk me. Chair seats, swinging lower legs, and low puppy-pawed hands galore! I'd love to see some of those riders on an OTTB in training for hunters. I'm pretty sure they'd get left behind and slide back on their asses. I watched the over fences classes at the AQHA Worlds one year and couldn't decide whether to laugh or cry.

    And the TWH...there's nothing I can say. I don't know how that's even comfortable to RIDE, let alone being OK for the horse.

    Why can't we all ride while still allowing them to be horses?

    wolfpackwalking said...

    Whiskey Chick:
    The horse at the end of the NWHA video that you are talking about is not "sitting down" like that because he/she is sore, but is hot about coming out of the gate after finishing a victory pass. I can't say if it has been padded before, but I do know that the NWHA tends to frown upon showing ex-padded horses because of the way their movement has been permanently altered. Look at the way the padded horses are squatting in the video from the celebration; those horses are hunkering down because their feet hurt. Sore horses rarely act foolish coming out of the ring from a victory pass; their mind is usually on other things. I think if you had caught a glimpse of the horse when it wasn't so excited, it wouldn't appear to be sore.

    I agree with you that flat shod horses can be some of the biggest victims when it comes to artificial enhancement of gait. Pressure shoeing is rampant in plantation/lite shod horses, and the thought of enduring that kind of pain makes me feel sick. As long as the exaggerated way of going is rewarded, people will come up with ways to cheat. Some of the "sound" horse trainers use shackles to manufacture a walking gait, which is just as unappealing to watch (in my opinion) as a sore horse. However, they aren't causing pain, so a lot of people are okay with that training method, even though the end result is far from the natural walking horse. I think if we spent more time riding and conditioning and "timing" up our horses properly, we'll be surprised at how much natural walk our horses have bred into them.

    Whiskey Chick said...

    I watched again. I paused that horse and went through it frame by frame. And I didnt see the hunkering earlier i seen the front end. Something about the front end screams not naturally trained. Perhaps not sored at the show, since they seem adamant about it im assuming they heavily check. But they cant control what happens in training. The rest of the horses in the video were awesome. If all shows were like that i would get another show horse and compete again win or lose. It just sucks losing to beat down horses. My current Walker is an ex Big Lick. My Dad bought her after she retired the Big Lick life and so far she is sound and according to the farriers, she should stay that way. She is a lucky one. Our last walker that was an ex big lick ended up being euth'd at 15 because he had calcium deposits so bad he would fall with every step.

    And i will note that i have never shown a ex big lick in a serious show. We used them for trails, fun/charity shows, and breeding. We trained our own flat shod walkers. I had a 5 yr old SSH that would have cleaned up the ring if everyone played fair. She was my best. The others i've shown never had the potential my SSH did, but i'll never know how far we could've went.

    katphoti said...

    Whisky Chick said:
    Just as side note... Just because a walker is flat shod does not mean it is not sored.

    ABSOLUTELY. Most of the flat shod horses in the sore horse industry are actually more sore than the BL horses because they are pressure shod or they wear pads to hide the devices shoved up into the frog of their foot that has been trimmed down to where it bleeds to cause pain. They are in constant pain, while a chemically sored horse is only sore when he's going to show or he's being juiced to figure out the right combo of chemicals to get the most out of him for the show ring. Not like one's better than the other, of course--they're both wrong.

    KUDOS to you for making ex-BL horses into trail horses. Although you couldn't show them in the sound horse circuit because they're scarred, you can at least give them a useful life.

    wolfpackwalking:
    Some of the "sound" horse trainers use shackles to manufacture a walking gait, which is just as unappealing to watch (in my opinion) as a sore horse.

    I agree when they're really mechanical looking. It's like you can tell when a horse wears packages or shackles at home because they're TOO rhythmic in the show ring.

    However, they aren't causing pain, so a lot of people are okay with that training method, even though the end result is far from the natural walking horse.

    I think when sound horse people use rollers and shackles they are causing pain. I actually used to use them on a mare I was working with for show, and I accidentally bruised her once. I didn't know it until I took the rollers off and went to put linament on her and she was jerking away from me that I realized what was wrong. So I don't see any really good use for them.

    I personally don't mind a heavier shoe, as long as there's no pad, chains, or bands involved. A horse can be conditioned to carry a heavier shoe, and I think that's okay to see in the show ring for the Plantation and Park horses with the sound horse industries.

    I think if we spent more time riding and conditioning and "timing" up our horses properly, we'll be surprised at how much natural walk our horses have bred into them.

    I couldn't agree more! There are more naturally high-stepping horses out there than we think there are--we just aren't spending enough time with them to condition them without gadgets and gimmicks to give them a chance.

    katphoti said...

    Whiskey Chick (again):
    Perhaps not sored at the show, since they seem adamant about it im assuming they heavily check.

    Nope, they're not--only if the USDA is there. The DQPs are still as crooked as ever in the sore horse shows. I hope to see more surprise visits by the USDA at sore horse shows this year than last year.

    Whiskey Chick said...

    Ok let me get this straight. The NWHA who is preaching about sound, non-sored, natural walkers do not have their own DQP's??? Why not hire them and do what the TWHBEA is not doing? I know the answer is money but i have to ask. People like me would pay higher entry fees to ensure im competing against the best REAL pain free horses in the ring.

    And as for mechanicals in training. The only thing i've used is a 3 pound keg shoes that were only on for 1 month of training. They helped her build her chest muscles and she could wear them in the pasture without worry of injury. The little punk even ran around in them. And as for rollers, they make wooden ones that only weigh a couple ounces. Those actually are like bracelets. Not like chains or metal rollers banging around. The wooden ones i used while in training because one of my horses would gait without picking her feet up hardly at all. Ive also used the wooden rollers on horses that we've brought in from sales that were never properly trained to gait. They are a temporary method though because horses do get used to them and ignore them. But if you cant figure out where to go from there then you shouldnt be training a gaited horse anyways.

    katphoti said...

    Whiskey Chick:
    Ok let me get this straight. The NWHA who is preaching about sound, non-sored, natural walkers do not have their own DQP's??? Why not hire them and do what the TWHBEA is not doing? I know the answer is money but i have to ask. People like me would pay higher entry fees to ensure im competing against the best REAL pain free horses in the ring.

    Oh no, I meant the TWHBEA people who continue to sore their horses! I thought you were talking about the videos that TJM posted on her post. Sorry for not explaining myself! With the NWHA video, those are clips from the different classes throughout the show. I actually have the DVD set of all the main arena classes. My friend who used to sore horses but obviously doesn't anymore (she helped found NWHA) says that you usually know they're sore when they "bounce" in the front and are crouching in the back. When a horse crouches, it IS sored, no matter what. That doesn't mean to penalize a long length of stride, though--only the crouching.

    NWHA has their own HIO and DQPs, and they do have a few HPA violations here and there. There are people who still try to get by with crap at the shows, but they are good at catching them, and those people usually never come back. FOSH has the same problems, but with the same outcome of catching them. But, I actually prefer NWHA shows because I think the horses are true show horses, while I think FOSH is too quick to punish naturally animated horses even though they're not sore. Of course, FOSH is doing the right thing, too, they just have a different idea of what a show horse should be. I like a naturally animated show horse--I think it's amazing to watch them glide along! :)

    The horses are most definitely pain-free at NWHA horse shows. PLEASE come--you will find they are just amazing animals with great showmanship. I have had so much fun showing with them, and the competition is always strong but very fair.

    I have no problem with training with the kind of shoe you're talking about. You obviously did it to condition your horse, and I think that's great. As long as the horse is not in pain, there's nothing wrong with it! I like to equate it to people who do professional cycling and will put weights on their legs when they train. It conditions their muscles to work harder, so when they are in competition they get better performance.

    I've never heard of wooden rollers. I'll have to take a look at that. Thanks for the info. While I prefer to use nothing at all except a keg shoe and find the horse's natural gait that way, other methods that don't hurt the horse aren't bad to know about. It does make sense that they would get used to it, though. It's why soring exists--they want the violent reaction each time the chain/rollers hit that pastern!

    katphoti said...

    Meghan:
    The HUS classes really irk me. Chair seats, swinging lower legs, and low puppy-pawed hands galore!

    ROTFLMAO!!! I love the "puppy-pawed hands" comment! SO true!

    katphoti said...

    P.S. about NWHA,

    I forgot to point out that their DQP fees to the show managers are actually cheaper than FOSH's. I think it's just because FOSH is more well known that we see more show managements affiliating with FOSH.

    Whiskey Chick said...

    katphoti:

    Well Im glad that was just a misunderstanding. I havnt heard of the NWHA until you posted about it here. I am glad that there is an organization promoting and encouraging natural walkers. If they have shows in ky i would definately attend. I do not currently have a horse eligible to show because the only one i have now is a ex big lick mare. I wish they'd never done that to her, she has that awesome plantation build. But that doesnt mean i wont have another show horse again some day lol.

    Jess9687 said...

    how do they catch the horses after the At Liberty classes.. They spend the whole time chasing them and then have to get them again. how do they do it?

    ((just a question, not an attack :)... I have never seen it before))

    DressageInJeans said...

    Wasn't a real big fan of the dressage. The canter had no phase of suspension and looked just like a lope with a high head set. That's what happens when you pull the head up without lowering the croup. (And look at that high croup and sunken shoulders!) Rollkur isn't the only thing wrong with dressage.

    I admit I don't like modern western pleasure, but I'm trying a new way of training that most western pleasure trainers don't know about. ...It's called IMPULSION and COLLECTION. lol. I'll let you know how we do this year. ;) No yanking, no BUMPING, no stupid crap that has nothing to do with real horsemanship, so spurring at every stride. WP riders, let me tell you something--bumping a horse in his mouth does NOT make him collect! Sillies.

    I DO, however, like HUS classes WHEN the horse's head is level with the withers. They're not supposed to be judged as if they're going over fences; it's a flat class and that's how the breed classes are. I DON'T like the lower-then-wither headsets, the Behind the vertical shit, or the loose, no-contact reins.

    Not a huge fan of the liberty classes only because I feel it's one of those 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours' judging. The horses DO look pretty though.

    Poor, poor halter horses.

    katphoti said...

    DressageInJeans,

    So is HUS judged totally different then H/J as far as how the rider rides? I get confused about these sometimes. Is H/J an actual over fences class, or is the horse just ridden differently and holds it's frame differently? Or does it jut depend on the breed? I am a TWH person, and while we have over fences, equitation, and dressage classes, since our horses gait we don't do some of the upper level stuff because nothing has ever been put together for gaited horses concerning it. The USDF does work with NWHA and has helped them develop dressage rules for gaited horses, which is way cool, so hopefully we'll see more gaited horses in classes besides rail classes! At least, that's where I'm going with the baby I'm breeding for!

    For the Tennessee Walking Horse
    When the Rain Horse Comes
    The Murder of the English Language

    Dreamcatcher1 said...

    If you had taken any time to educate yourself on stock type horses you would realize that a low head and a slow consistent pace is a sign of a relaxed collected animal. Also as far as the Tennessee walkers go why is it bad that they naturally move that way? Just because you think it's ugly doesn't mean that is law does it? Do we need to ask your opinion before we decide what we like? I admit that in every aspect of the animal world, whether it be dogs or horses or any animal, humans actions are not always admirable. Do not try to bring down the entire horse industry because you are judgmental and uneducated! Thank you.

    GoLightly said...

    DreamCatcher said:
    "you would realize that a low head and a slow consistent pace is a sign of a relaxed collected animal. Also as far as the Tennessee walkers go why is it bad that they naturally move that way?"

    (shakes head)

    Now THAT's a scary comment..

    Did you know, most halter bred QH's couldn't collect if their very lives DEPENDED on it?? Their legs are so straight.

    The WP shit out there is just that, shit.
    Even people in the industry are starting (not too quick of course) to realize what they've done. It ain't good.

    Just because TWH MOVE THAT WAY??
    Holy crap.
    Read more, learn more, then comment. Yeah, they move that way for several gazillion mechanical and very painful reasons.

    katphoti!!
    SIC 'em!!

    OldMorgans said...

    I am recovering from a stomach/intestinal virus so I can only take a few of those YouTubes at one time. I have worked my way thru Cleve Wells & the QH show ring.
    As bad as Cleve-boy is, I have the feeling that his methods are considered normal. There is a reiner "trainer" barn that I pass on my way to town. I have learned not to look if I see anyone in the arena. Same shit as Cleve.
    As to the WP & HS show ring--
    Even if they are breeding for a flat top line (and it sure does not look flat to me since everything in front of the withers is going downhill), and claim it is not abusive training methods, they have made a travesty and a parody of the horses. I can only hope that some day, the people who defend this wreck will finally understand the horror they have inflicted upon these noble and kind horses.
    I have to believe that Cosmic Justice will prevail.

    sagebeasties.blogspot.com

    EveryoneThinksThey'reGoodDrivers said...

    I am so so so so so so so so so sick of all of this.

    Having been unfortunately close to a lot of it, I am so so so so so sick.

    Thanks for posting.

    GoLightly said...

    OldMorgans said:
    "they have made a travesty and a parody of the horses."

    Yes, indeed.
    Contortionistas was the consensus of what the horses look like.
    I believe that word was coined on an older post.
    Only the horses are suffering for it. NOT THE RIDERS.
    The horse's very conformation/mechanics are being destroyed. FOR THE RIDERS.

    Sorry, makes me angry.

    To Horses.

    DressageInJeans said...

    Katphoti,

    In HUS, the rider isn't really judged (unless you're practically falling off, or dangerous. It's starting to get REALLY ugly I will admit, because most western riders can't really ride when you put them in an english saddle. Thank God I have classical equitation!
    H/J is two different things--Hunters and Jumpers (although some people use it to mean hunters that go over fences, then on the flat.) It's more 'traditional english' then 'breed english'. Hunters are supposed to have long sweepy movement and are judged on their way of going, obedience, and style over fences. If it's an equitation class, then the rider is judged as well. Jumper classes, it doesn't matter what you look like as long as you get over the fence in the right time, or as long as you don't knock anything down. :)

    That IS cool about dressage for gaited horses--I hope they don't start the rollkur and other crap that's moving through regular dressage right now. :(

    katphoti said...

    GL, HAHAHAHA! You crack me up! And now to follow your command....

    Dreamcatcher1,

    "Also as far as the Tennessee walkers go why is it bad that they naturally move that way? Just because you think it's ugly doesn't mean that is law does it?"

    TWHs ABSOUTELY DO NOT move naturally with gigantic reach in front and crouching like a German Shepherd in the back. That is all mechanical and all about the horse being sored. If they are crouching in the back end, then they are sore. Period. If you watch sound TWHs on stacks, they do not crouch. Sore ones do. This coming from friends who used to sore horses and have finally seen their ways.

    It DOES make a difference that it's ugly. Do you realize that when the outside world sees these videos, they assume the horse is in pain whether they are sored or not, AND they assume that ALL TWH owners are abusive to their horses? This is a huge detriment to the breed because then they won't buy one, for show or trail. This means TWHBEA does not get the revenue they want, nor do TWH barns sell as many horses as they'd like. This is evidenced in the recent declines in both memberships and transfers of horses in TWHBEA.

    The TWH moves naturally with a rhythmic, four-beat gait that does not require special shoes, heavy bits, or harsh methods of training to get it out of them. I have learned from high-profile trainers that TWHs can learn their natural gait under saddle with just a snaffle bit and barefoot or with keg shoes. The industry is ruining this breed by continuing to make people think that the parody of the gait we see in the show ring at sore horse shows is "natural."

    DIJ,

    Thanks for the explanation. That cleared up a lot for me!

    "That IS cool about dressage for gaited horses--I hope they don't start the rollkur and other crap that's moving through regular dressage right now. :("

    Honestly, I doubt that will ever happen since the majority of dressage TWHs are in NWHA and FOSH. Most of them are very keen on correct dressage and using the old masters' methods. These are people who are staying away from soring, so I doubt the rollkur method will be accepted! :)

    Psychotic Raccoon said...

    Those videos scared the shit out of me. What's wrong with people?

    Those spurs made my sides hurt just looking at them.

    attafox said...

    DressageinJeans - the dressage ASB in the video just showed at his first GrandPrix at Wellington and scored in the upper 60's.

    Here's another dressage ASB, located in So. Cal. This is video of him with 7 months of training under saddle. His trainer left Medieval Times (where he was head trainer), so Dalton has been his sole project this last year along with looking for a new position. He came to Equine Affaire in Pomona and showed in his first public performance and did very well, although some of the DQs thought he had been "pushed," where he actually has only gone as far/fast as he is individually capable of ... 'dem ASBs is trainable!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YHPP68yGS8

    Ky Eliza said...

    I'm used to seeing horrifying elements in QH, WP and Saddleseat classes, but those Hunters shocked me. WTF? When did Hunters turn into WP?