Lets take this blog to the next level

If you have a photo of crappy show riding, know of a jerkwad trainer or judge, or someone in the show world that is an abusive piece of shit then send the info to me. This blog is not anti-showing, it's anti-abuse. So there is no truth to the claims from the TWH, ASB, western pleasure and dressage zombies that I'm trying to shut showing down. Instead I'm trying to make showing more honest and to get abusive practices out of the showring! Email me at shameinthehorseshowring@gmail.com



I have a request for my readers: If you have successfully rehabbed a show horse, or gotten a rescue and taken it on to a show career then let me know, I'd love to feature you here!






Tuesday, September 23, 2008

Proof that the halter industry sucks......

I had a debate with myself about what to write about next. The Icelandic crowd has been so interesting to deal with, and of course the TWH groups gives me endless fodder, that I was originally going to leave the stock horse industry alone for a few posts and focus back on the gaited horses. That was until I saw this picture.



WTF is the exhibitor that is showing this horse thinking? Here’s what I’m thinking:

1) You suck as a trainer. You have no business having a horse at a show. There is absolutely no excuse to hold a lip chain that tight. I don’t care if it is a stallion, if you can’t train him to mind then leave him at home.
2) Your stallion has no business reproducing, ever. He could be the best conformed horse on the planet but you’ve just advertised to the entire world that he’s has such a shitty disposition that he can’t be controlled without having his gums ripped up to his eyeballs.
3) Most breeds do not allow lip chains. Even the TWH industry, which caters to the dregs of the horse world, doesn’t allow you to stick a chain in a horse’s mouth and numb his gums.
4) I find it highly ironic that stock horse trainers talk about how flighty and stupid Arabs, Saddlebreds, Morgans etc are, yet I have never seen one shown in hand with a chain in its mouth. I have seen classes full of stallions, babies, amateur handlers, you name it, in all the above breeds and never seen a horse with a chain in its mouth.
5) I actually have to commend AQHA because they took lip chains out of the gelding, mare and yearling and younger stallion classes. I wish they had taken it further and banned them completely, but at least they finally did make some effort to clean things up. APHA and ApHC have done nothing about lip chains and because of this they allow trainers, and judges, to promote the public image that the Paint and Appaloosa are not good, quiet, family horses. No one wants to buy a horse for their child that has to be restrained by a lip chain. Long-term lip chain use causes damage. It can result in atrophied gums, lost teeth, bite misalignment, as well as damage to the nerves in the corners of the lips. It can also result in injuries from the horse being shanked and flipped over, as this next photo shows.




Don’t you love it? The horse has had enough shit and he’s protesting. His lip is being ripped up and he’s doing the head jerk that you rarely see in horses that don’t have chains on their heads. Think about this poor bugger. He’s been fed feed that’s too high in protein, alfalfa hay, kept in a stall 22 hours a day, stuck in a trailer, hauled miles and miles, kept in a strange stall, maybe lunged for 15 minutes, and to punish him for his energy he gets a lip chain. Don’t you just wish he’d rear up and fall sideways and smash that idiot on the end of the shank?











Oh look, two for the price of one! Don’t you love seeing lines of miserable horses standing around just wishing to hell they could knock their handler in the head and run for freedom? Who’d have thunk that a halter horse would be jealous of an Amish plow horse simply because plowing is so much more appealing then getting a lip-ectomy at the hands of some jerk-off trainer? Who promotes this kind of crap? Why it’s the little group of Satan’s minions that not only place poor handling, but they do it themselves when they show their own horses. Let’s just advertise to the entire industry that stock horse halter people can’t train a horse to stand still long enough for a 15-minute halter class. Pretty funny when you consider that Gunther Goebel Williams used to run 7 Arabian stallions around a 45 foot diameter ring, at liberty, and fully capable of killing each other and him at any tim, and never had a problem. Good thing for the halter trainers that he’s not around to show them how to train a horse, he’d embarrass the hell out of them.







Oh look, another line of Satan’s minions just adding to the misery of the horse world. Notice that the second horse in the class looks relaxed and casual, of course he’s not wearing a lip chain.
The first horse’s expression says it all: BLEH! The third horse is probably dreaming about how much more fun it would be to have a job that didn’t cause such misery; say a taxi-horse in the brothel districts of Thailand or maybe the horse that drags the canal barge along the Nile. Those tourist barges are looking very appealing next to having your upper lip removed via chain gang surgery.






Bet you can’t guess from the mottled skin what breed this is?
The Breed of Choice is choosing to allow lip chains to continue to permeate the show ring at every level. Doesn’t matter if the horse is a mare, gelding or stallion, weanling, yearling or aged. Even the youth and non-pros can show a horse with a lip chain. I have personally see youth exhibitors flip over their lip chained horses. The horses have almost hit the youth exhibitor standing behind them. It’s such a bunch of stupid crap. No child should ever have a lip chain in their hands. If the horse is that unruly then it isn’t safe for the child to show! How much further down the road to bad parenting can you get? Let me guess; you let your child ride without a helmet on a green two-year-old through a fireworks display?
When I started showing using a lip chain was a public advertisement that you were a piss poor trainer or your horse was a complete idiot. It’s actually still the same. People who aren’t in the stock horse industry don’t get it. Hell, even draft horses aren’t shown in lip chains and they can drag your ass down the road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV8VEOoHY-s



Here’s another one of our little mottled skinned darlings. This is a yearling. A yearling! So this poor little guy must be such a big scary horse to handle that Satan’s minion can’t even risk leading him around without his torture chain? Can you just see what would happen if the US government instituted a “truth in advertising” clause for the horse industry.

Here’s how the ad would read:
ApHC yearling, gums destroyed from lip chain abuse, attitude not much better, kept stalled, fed too much, exercised just enough to make him halter fit, but not enough to let him be a horse. Flips on command. Head shy and hates to have his mouth handled. Don’t worry about him being productive, he’s so specialty bred he’s not good for anything but halter any how!

I can see people stepping up to buy that one

Oh, and aside from the lip chains WTF is the deal with bending over to place the horse’s feet? The non-pros and youth can’t do it in showmanship. Are you telling me some big time trainer can’t even handle a horse as well as a youth exhibitor? It used to be illegal to touch your horse, you remember, back in the day when you actually had to train a horse before showing it.

Failing! The halter industry is failing and the people in it are just making it fail faster by allowing this kind of abuse to happen. You cannot promote a section of the horse industry that allows blatant abuse to go on in the show ring.

40 comments:

GoLightly said...

Cool, I get to comment first.
TJM, you keep this up, please. The quality of handling out there is truly horrendous, judging by the pics you are finding. Almost makes me want to start teaching again, so that at least some people will learn how to properly, quietly, gently train/handle their horses. The feeding issues are just plain stupid. Lip chains on QH's???? Shouldn't that be an oxymoron? Omigod. Poor critters. When I read about stuff like this, my blood boils a bit.. And on the feeding thing, my last horse (the one whose story made me finally quit the horse biz altogether) was foundered badly (TWICE) by the asshat where I boarded him. Well respected guy, too, for goodness sakes. Well-known barn, Olympians rode there, blah, blah blah. No turn out, sweet feeded him 'til his eyes popped out, I kept demanding hay, NO grain, and after he foundered again, I dropped in unannounced to find asshat feeding him MORE sweet feed. We moved out the next day, but the damage was done. I bought the horse as a two year old unraced TB colt, had him gelded, told ass hat to turn him out/hand-walk him. he said he would. He kept him IN, until I got there from work, to find the poor bugger standing, miserable. How can people be so stupid.... I won't own one again, until I have my own independent fortune in hand. Another horse, at the barn where I taught, was a beautiful conformation horse, won a big class, he was so frickin' FAT!. He foundered so badly, he had to be put down. My colt met the same fate, poor bugger. He just couldn't stay sound after that. At least I didn't send him on a slaughter truck.
I've tried part-boarding, but the lack of knowledge is so rampant, I didn't know what to say to some people. Here they were, hanging for dear life on their horse's mouth, kicking away, while I quietly worked "my" horse. One girl, had ridden for maybe two years, all she wanted to know was if I showed. Why is showing the be all end all??? Why isn't horsemanship FIRST!!!! The other forum I frequent has really starting depressing me, it's all youngsters bragging about their ribbons, and how funny that other people don't know what a "halter" is. The snobbery starts way too young. Shoot, I better work:)
Again, keep it up, girl. You and Fugly need to keep snarking at these idiots.

VAhorsegal said...

I couldn't agree more! I have 8 year old kids that take OTTBs in showmanship that can stand them up square and make them stand quietly, and it is certainly done with out such cruel punishment! It's called proper training people! Those pictures are disgusting. Keep up the good work, there are people out here that still believe that proper care and training are the answer, not gimmicks and abuse!

CutNJump said...

While Arabs do not allow lip chains, they go a slightly different route-

Bitted show halters. Like this one from Schneiders- Show Halter

Notice it does not come with the bit shown, but on the right- they recommend one FOR you... FES Elite SS Fishback Bradoon and from the description-

"Fishback Bradoon features arched mouth and triangular shaped underside of mouth. Our Fishback bits do not have notches. Fishback mouth provides more "bite" than a Smooth snaffle, but less than a Twist."

***Note that elsewhere in the catalog- they have 'trainers tips' where it states the thinner the bit, the more 'bite' it has to it. Hence the reasoning behind offering the Bradoons, rather than a regular bit.***


So right off the bat, they are offering you more control, through more "bite" since your horse is aparently an uncontrollable, neurotic dipshit. Instead of training them, teaching them manners and *GASP* actually making them fucking behave themselves!, just shove a bit in their mouth and yank/shank away... Yep, that should do it!

Our friends at Schneiders also offer this lovely product, and from the text-

"Aids in all phases of breaking and halter training. Great for starting weanlings or yearlings, fine tuning show stock or re-schooling problem horses. Halter #04414 comes with leather crown, removable and adjustable throat latch and adjustable cheeks. Halter #01787 is the "original", featuring heavy link chain crown (adjustable on both ends), removable and adjustable throatlatch, adjustable cheeks and nylon cord curb. Both made in the USA of the finest leather, brass hardware (#01787 has nickel plated chain)."

OH, all righty then! "Aids in all phases of breaking..." REALLY? In WHOSE fucking world? Apparently not mine. I've never needed one and can't see a day in the future I ever will!!!

"Great for starting weanlings and yearlings,..." SERIOUSLY? WHY? What the Fuck do you have your babies "amped" up on, that you would need ANYTHING like this to control them? And just WHAT have you done to make them behave this way, or otherwise turn them into unruly, dangerous little creatures. And just WHY is this torourous contraption so fucking GREAT? Especially for use on BABIES!

GAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

And just because lip chains are not allowed IN the ring, DOES NOT mean they are not used outside the ring or at home...

Right along with ginger salve or Tail Set Gel which Schneiders has since removed from the online catalog. I bet if you called and asked for it though, it might still be available...

Sorry for the rant. Can you tell I'm in a mood?

CutNJump said...

I forgot to comment on the heavy linked chain crown and the nylon cord curb...

What The Fuck(???) in the name of whichever diety you choose, makes a chain over the poll acceptable? I don't give a rats ass how heavy or light the link of the chain IS and I really could give two shits less that is is adjustable. Why in the hell is it ACCEPTABLE? WHO came up with that idea? Oh wait, BOB HART must have. His name is on the product and apparently HE endorses it's use.

And a nylon cord curb. Gee any bets on how much salve and ointment they sell to put on the raw and burnt skin under the horses chin from having that yanked on during a 'training session'... I should think you would get a free gallon with your purchase of the trainng halter.

And TJM I agree with Golightly!

YOU GO GIRL!

For those who think this poor excuse for public behaviour, crappy, shortcut, gimmicky and win at all costs, blatant abuse is absolutely fine and otherwise acceptable-

GO BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!

Whoalillowe said...

I use a lip chain when I clip my horse. She's terrified of clipping her ears (the only time I use one is when she HAS to have her ears done). I spent an entire year and a half trying to break her of the fear of the big scary clippers but it didn't work.

Seeing horses have lip chains on IN classes makes me sick. I show Arabians and boy would you get kicked out fast for that. I think the ONLY other breed that does that is the TB racing industry...and we all know how AWSOME they treat their babies (as they have them running top speed around a track with a person on their backs and 10 other horses bumping into them at break neck speeds....)

Poor babies.

cattypex said...

Gunther Goebel Williams!!! HAHAHA

Didn't he also have an act featuring horses AND big cats??

DAMN CNJ, that chain-poll halter is HORRID. God, what's wrong with actually spending some TIME with a horse, and WORKING it !?!?!??!!

If you're a Big Name Trainer, you're setting an example, so quit being an assembly line go back to being a Trainer.

Why would you put a lip chain on an already scared horse? Or are you talking about a twitch?

Wow, do people still twitch? I haven't had a horse in years so I don't deal with vet visits etc.

Spamamander said...

I'm... floored. I'm not a horseperson, just someone who has always loved and cherished horses, but even I did a major "wtf" on a halter with a chain at the goddamn POLL. Makes me want to take a blunt instrument and pound on the soft spot just behind the earlobes of these asshats who think it's a good idea. Here, feel good? Huh? Huh??

I'd never seen these lip chains either, no wonder there are so many rank and pissy stallions out there. I would be too! I've helped twitch a horse for a touchy procedure before, and understood why that was necessary, safety pure and simple for the horse and the handlers. But a constant yank against lips and teeth? I knew I wasn't enthralled by stock halter but this just seals it.

CutNJump said...

I have used a lip chain before- on my gelding. The farrier was working on his back feet and the horse was being an all out prick- jerking his feet away with each hammer strike once the nails were through the hoof enough to tear the farrier's hands, legs and anything else in reach, to shreds. If the farrier let go of the leg it swung, kicking around to prevent him from grabbing it again.

A couple of tugs and some harsh "Knock it off!" growls and he got the idea he better stand there and behave himself. After that if he even started that shit, put the chain in one tug (not a jerk or yank, but a tug to remind him) and he stood like a statue.

Quite the difference, from what is displayed in the ring! There is a time and a place when it is appropropriate as a disciplinary action- but like everything else- over-use is abuse.


Yeah, the chain over the poll? WTF? and the nylon cord curb. Like that combo won't have any horse throwing its head in no time.



Whoalillowe- I can relate. I have a 42" or 10.2 hand pony mare who has never, ever been good about handling her ears, let alone clipping them. Usually takes two people to hold her and one to clip. Even then it is an uphill battle.

Some horses never handle ear clipping well- even while sedated, twitched and otherwise restrained.

Tuffy Horse said...

Cutnjump wrote:
>Quite the difference, from what is displayed in the ring! There is a time and a place when it is appropropriate as a disciplinary action- but like everything else- over-use is abuse.


I agree. Every veterinary manual I have lists a lip chain as a restraining device, not a training device. There is a difference. Going into the show ring with a lip chain is like walking in there with a twitch on your horse.
Isn't showing about how the horse behaves, as well as how he looks? Shouldn't a show horse be judged on manners?


http://thehorsediary.blogspot.com/

Carrie Giannandrea said...

The photos of the horses with lip chains make my heart hurt.

I have shown my stallion in ApHC Breed shows against stallions who had the chain over their gums.......they were quite antsy and scary. Yes, they beat us.........but my boy is happy, behaved and confident in the ring in-hand or under saddle!

Thank you TJ for putting this problem out in front for everyone to see. It has to stop!

Carrie Giannandrea
Dances with Horses
Formula One Farms

No said...

I am amazed that this can be considered something that is ok to do by ANY association. In this day and age it really doesn't surprise me anymore as to the shortcuts that people will take with gadgets and chains rather than good training ethics and time. I have actually never seen lip-chains in action before and I cannot fathom how anyone could think that this was an appropriate way to treat an animal.
Keep up the great work - it's good to get your eyes opened!

cattypex said...

Heh... I had to help a completely inexperienced family get a borrowed, fairly rank mare ready for the Fair....

I have cordless trimmers I like to use in ears, and she tolerated one ear just fine. I let the clippers sit a bit, cool off y'know, and tried the other ear... she went APESHIT. Finally just got out my kid-safe scissors and went all to town in there, and then used a Bic for the stray hairs. :P It was getting dark, there were no lights, I was desperate.

A dopey friend of mine tried Nair once. You can guess how well THAT turned out....

I guess a lip chain, judiciously applied - like any other discipline aid - would work, I've just been lucky enough never to have needed to use anything worse than a shank under the chin and my mean growly growl. Or a twitch, of course.

But these "trainers" .... just awful.

I don't even like a choke chain for most dogs (I'm a big fan of the Gentle Leader, basically a Be-Nice halter for dogs), so seeing this kind of thing on babies... so sad.

Sug said...

I wonder if sometimes the lip chain isn't used because it is fashionable to do so--kind of like spurs in the western pleasure and horsemanship or the chain under the chin in showmanship. I am not saying it excuses the (seemingly rampant) misuse of the lip chain that you've documented here, not at all, just playing devil's advocate. I wonder if exhibitors feel they draw more attention to themselves by not using a lip chain on their stallions than by using one.

I remember when everyone used martingales on their hunters--fashion dictated their use more than necessity. Now, not so much.

I might be off-base considerably, but I was thinking about it as I was vacuuming this morning, so I thought I'd post.

Bay-Lee said...

I HATE people.........
expecially the one's who "think" they know what they are doing..

GoLightly said...

I've been thinking hard on this subject. Does it begin with youth?? When I was young (long time ago) I was totally guilty of being a know-it-all loud mouth. A complete idiot. Why does that happen in horse sport? Why do we become know-it-alls just by sitting on a horse for a few years? And not just the H/J world I was in. My dear friends that bought one of my school ponies when I quit teaching, have mostly Arabs and Clydes, and crosses, and minis (!) said the snarky cattery is much less in the Arab world. I wouldn't know, but I still wonder. I guess the obvious answer is that lots (not all, by any means, I was a "poor" kid) of young people in the sport are wealthy, spoiled brats. They want instant gratification. Instant success is often theirs.
That horses put up with us, keeps me smiling.
Any ideas? How to stop the (lack of a better word) snottiness? How do you handle people who don't believe you have anything relevant to say?
I watched a class at Spruce Meadows on TV, the CN Grand Prix, and there was a pretty blonde with a very expensive horse, ended up with 25(?) faults, and I wonder what the heck she was doing there. $$$ is the answer. I do wonder if I would have turned out as kind as compassionate as I AM, if I'd be born very very wealthy. Horses are for rich people. Horses not owned by rich people, often suffer. Not trying to generalize, just honestly wondering. Oh, and that chain on the crown Halter???? For BABIES??? Oh, my, god.
We've all lip-chained something, I had to with one really nasty stallion, but it sure wasn't his fault he hated people!! Why are lip-chains allowed in the show ring???? With the quietest, most intelligent horses? Common at the track, maybe?? Oh, I don't know.. Better work! Thanks again, TJM!

Tuffy Horse said...

Sug wrote:

>I wonder if exhibitors feel they draw more attention to themselves by not using a lip chain on their stallions than by using one.

I think you're right that people do it to mimic the big trainers.

BUT, I also think it's a fad that hurts them instead of helps. When I'm judging and see a horse in a class without a lip chain I will give it a second look, and if it's a toss up between it and another horse then the one without the lip chain wins. Manners have got to be counted.

CutNJump said...

I wonder if they would all shit a brick if someone were to enter the ring with a twitch on their horse, a death grip on their ear, pinching a roll of skin on their neck/shoulder or one of the other tyes of restraints we have all seen or used at one time?

I know you would get DQ'ed, (if you even made it through the in gate) but damn it! It would be funny as hell wouldn't it?

Then go on to protest the class- under the reasoning that you were using a similar disciplinary restraint to control your horse, much like a lip chain is a disciplinary restraint... If I got DQ'ed why are they ALL not DQ'ed as well?

What would happen at Congress or World Or the top 3 Arab shows, if someone posted the funds to protest EVERY CLASS where this or other similar things are happening to the horses because the handlers lack the skill, talent and knowledge to handle their horses properly and effectively?

And just WHY is it that MANNERS are NOT present OR accounted for? I can understand a horse being a little flighty, unruly or misbehaving because they feel good once in a while. That is to be expected and totally acceptable. Besides they all have their days, just like we do.

But when bad behavior, i.e. rearing striking, kicking, biting, challenging, ear pinning, lip wrinkling, etc. is the 'norm' to put you anywhere in the ribbons...

Well then the judges all need a good bashing up side the head with a shovel! They are just as much at risk of injury, having a horse like that in the ring, as the other exhibitors and their horses are.

I'll bring the shovels!

Emilie said...

Christ!

I get that, maybe, they do it to mimic others. But here's the thing.

When I grew up riding, I didn't even see a lead rope with a chain. I don't remember when I did. But I certainly didn't immediately run out and buy one to use on my perfectly lovely gelding. It was clear to me, chains are used for jerkoff horses, or for added control.

If I had a yearling Appy stud, unless he was pure hell, there's no way I'd use a chain. And if he was pure hell? I'd figure out what the hell is wrong with him, or I'd be done. No yearling can be that rank.

xwatchmerunx said...

My gosh! I didn't even know that these existed!
I show my Irish Cob gelding in hand and although he can be a handful, i'm sure he'd be more of a risk using a lip chain than ever before, he'd go mental!

Whoalillowe said...

cutnjump-
when I first started working with her on her ears it took a twitch AND lip chain (as well as 2 people) now I can do it by myself with a twitch or with one other person and a lip chain, over all it's an improvement but i still HATE to have to use that chain

Jamie said...

I have only seen a picture of this once before and I thought the chain went through the mouth like where the bit does. I had no idea. Of course, either way is pretty morbid in my opinion. I use a rope halter. I think they should try that!

That Paladin Shire stallion...gorgeous. He's also done some Parelli from the videos.

Maybe you can do a shoe post. Yeah, that would mainly put you back to the gaited horse industry but I'm barefoot all the way.

CutNJump said...

Whoalillowe-

The mare I mentioned, I bought as an unbroke 4 y/o. She improves about her ears, if you are bridling her every day and you are quick, precise and consistent about how everything is done. She merely tollerates it.

Clipping is a whole other story. She will now, after 12 years let me hold her ear 'closed' and buzz down the outside, but that is after a discussion with her-

"Look, just let me do this and I promise I will make it fast, mkay? Then you can have some cookies..." I still have to be quick about it and only get one shot to do what I can.

When showing her and clipping the whole ear- two people holding her, twitched, skin twitched, eared down and spare hands on the halter or lead while the third person clipped as quick as possible and she would still try to fight us all as best she could. I doubt sedation would have phased her a bit.

Best day of my life was when my daughter said she no longer wanted to show- just trail ride.

No more clipping her ears = OH! HAPPY! JOY!

cattypex said...

"No more clipping her ears = OH! HAPPY! JOY!"

HA HA

Isn't it fun the creative lengths we have to go to sometimes to get control??

And if you ALWAYS use the harshest means possible, for NO good reason, well... I think we all know how that goes.

Really, I'm with CNJ. How come manners just aren't emphasized? And so many people want to look like Big Bad Horse Conquerors with Wild Steeds?

I'm too old & out of shape for a wild steed. And I've got a kid. Sheesh.

CutNJump said...

In reading Cattypex's post I just have to wonder-

Manners in any of the under saddle classes count! If your horse bucks, rears, runs off, kicks at another horse or in some cases, swishes his tail funny or wrong, has their ears pinned is baring their teeth, is going too fast or shows any other even subtle signs of misbehaving- you will often Not get pinned and depending on what they did you could get the gate.

Why isn't halter held to the same standard?

Again I say we get together and post the fee to protest some of the bigger classes at the bigger shows. Even if for no other reason than to raise a stink and pitch a fit.

Imagine the stir that would cause...

Tuffy Horse said...

CutNJump wrote:

>Manners in any of the under saddle classes count! If your horse bucks, rears, runs off, kicks at another horse or in some cases, swishes his tail funny or wrong, has their ears pinned is baring their teeth, is going too fast or shows any other even subtle signs of misbehaving- you will often Not get pinned and depending on what they did you could get the gate.

>Why isn't halter held to the same standard?


I have had several proposals before the ApHC BOD suggesting a loose horse rule for halter be inacted, as well as a flip over rule. Nope, they aren't going to do it. I have worked to ban lip chains, and would have settled for it just for the weanlings, but NO, they weren't going to take away a trainer's right to put a lip chain on a weanling filly.
People have complained about the chains, loose horses, drugs and all other kinds of abuses and they are ignored.

http://thehorsediary.blogspot.com/

Trojan Mouse said...

Cutnjump,

>Again I say we get together and post the fee to protest some of the bigger classes at the bigger shows. Even if for no other reason than to raise a stink and pitch a fit.

>Imagine the stir that would cause...

This blog is causing a stir. Some of the whiners on the FHOTD forum are bitchign because I "generalize" and I don't cite good examples. I'm a zealot or just ignorant. I don't know how to draw a horse's showulder. Oh boo fucking hoo. Go read this and get a laugh!

http://fhotd64476.yuku.com/topic/13891?page=1

Poor Allison and lopenlead are just all atwitter at my meaness. One day I might take a few minutes and actually give a fuck about what they think.

cattypex said...

Tuffy, I guess you can speak truth to power until you're blue in the face, but the power doesn't listen...

Now, if a bunch of people SCREAMED truth to power, that might work a little better. :P

*goes to read fugly forum thread*

CutNJump said...

TJM-
One day I might take a few minutes and actually give a fuck about what they think.


It might take more than a few minutes.

Either way- a waste of time. LOL!

NZ Appaloosas said...

Just to let you know that not all registries allow lip chains. ApHANZ, the national appy club of New Zealand will low chains over/under the nose, but absolutely nothing in the mouth, including inhand bits. And the horses, at least in our are, are routinely shown in arenas made out of dressage arena sides, so loose/wild horses aren't going to be contained in an arena--training to stand is just a fact of life here.

GoLightly said...

Overo Lethal White Syndrome-
Hey, I was H/j, I think I read about it in Equus, memory is failing:) Sorry, dumb question asked. Just for the record, I've always felt that too much white is not a good thing, in any animal, except from the point that it kinda proves the animal is domesticated... (Remember the tests done on foxes?) One of the beasts I saw on line for sale was a "known carrier", sold as a stallion. I guess, to some, that is a selling point???
Oh, the things we've done, in the name of "fixing" traits...
To the horses, Blue eyes, and all.

GoLightly said...

Went over to that FHOTD link, boy are they a bunch of boneheaded...
I guess the icelandic bits are okay, because they don't see anything wrong with a horse's mouth WIDE open?? Yeah, snaffles with shanks, so benign, so easy on their poor mouths...
To the horses.

fuglyhorseoftheday said...

Fucking ridiculous. I have a 16.2 hand stallion and he has NEVER been lip chained. If I had to lip chain him to control him, he'd be a 16.2 hand GELDING.

What happened to training your stallion to behave in company? It is not brain surgery.

RidingSpots said...

Sometimes the truth hurts.

I occasionally show my not-really-halter-horses in halter at ApHC shows. I personally don't care to be in the same ring as you if you need a lip chain to handle your horse!

I am ashamed to admit that the first time I showed my mare in halter, I wasn't sure what to do with the lead shank so I followed the lead of "professionals" and ran the chain over her nose. It's not like I pulled on it but if you can lead your horse with no halter, why would you do that? I like to think I know a little better and am more apt to do whatever I want regardless of whether it's trendy or "everybody does it" now and I simply run the chain through the halter ring and snap it back to itself. Even with my stallion.

I got my Appaloosa stallion at age 3 after he had pasture bred about 20 mares. With some TRAINING, I am to the point where I can handle him (yes, ride him, too) in a plain rope halter at a show/event.

I am proud to say that at the last big show, I safely rode him bareback in his halter around the grounds, got pictures taken, and hung out at the in/out gates watching my friends finish up the show day. He didn't say one word and didn't misstep. So, if a regular, everyday WOMAN can get her stallion to that point, why do our professional trainers need to show in lip chains?!

Trojan Mouse said...

ridingspots,

>I am proud to say that at the last big show, I safely rode him bareback in his halter around the grounds, got pictures taken, and hung out at the in/out gates watching my friends finish up the show day. He didn't say one word and didn't misstep. So, if a regular, everyday WOMAN can get her stallion to that point, why do our professional trainers need to show in lip chains?!


Because you actually care about your horse, and they are dickheads. It's that simple.

TJM

Trojan Mouse said...

FHOTD,

>Fucking ridiculous. I have a 16.2 hand stallion and he has NEVER been lip chained. If I had to lip chain him to control him, he'd be a 16.2 hand GELDING.


I agree completely. If the horse is that bad why is it still a stallion. My sister's two stallions are like geldings. She does everything with them and hauls them in the trailer with the mares when we trail ride. My niece rides them at shows and expos and never has a single problem. If you put a lip chain on either one they would probably die of shame.

If she wasn't such a bitch she'd give me Vader for my birthday so I could have my own stallion to brag about.

TJM

The Iron Squirrel said...

The only time I have EVER used a lip chain on a horse was when I worked on the saratoga race track with 2 year old stud colts which were conditioned to run the big races and amped up on enough supplements to kill a small dog (the racing industry is a scary place- I learned from experience I didn't want anything to do with it at age 18). I cannot imagine the purpose of using these on a QH. Isn't the point of a dead broke QH that its dead broke and doesn't need a lip chain? God, its like AQHA is a religion or something that people follow unwaveringly. Its like a cult! And it starts with young kids!

Ponykins said...

I've shown Arabians for 40+ years. We attended the All American Quarter Horse Congress just for the shopping. But when we ate lunch, we went in and sat down in the audience in the show arena. It was the mares halter class. As the class started we unintentially burst out laughing as the first horse was trotted in lame. It gimped and winced along. We expected it to be DQ'd. Imagine showing at that level and being DQ'd for a lame halter horse. How embarrasing. But it wasn't. The next and the next and the next moved the same way. We were flabergasted. All but 3 mares wore gum chains. I show an Arabian stallion and the halter I have to use on him is like a thread. The throat latch is like a fishing line and no chains in the mouths aloud. Seeing these mares made me never consider wanting to either own or show one. Blech!

QHdressagewannabe said...

Poor babies! Reminds me of some of those colt bits used in racehorses. Looks like nasty pieces of equipment!

Quick question (not sure anyone will see this since this post is a bit old) but why did they start using chains under a horse's chin in showmanship? I don't show showmanship, but my mare has (with a previous owner) and I've played around with it while doing groundwork. Mostly the pivot in teaching and reinforcing the command to move her shoulder and get out of my space when I walk in on her. I don't care if she pivots correctly, I'm just getting her to move away when I ask her to. I do this in a regular halter and lead with no chain.

Is it similar to subtling your cues to the horse? I know in showmanship you can't touch your horse to make him/her pivot or back up, is the chain like a double briddle in dressage, to inforce the command but in a subtle way?

uncle.henrys said...

okay thats gross and well y dont they use the chain over the nose...the correct way sooo it doesnt hurt the horse. cuzz if u dont do it the right way of putting the chain on the horses nose then u will hurt them

connie sue Lankheet said...

if they cant control them leave them at home or have them gelded !!!!!!!!! aqha dont care they just want the money !!!! the hell with the horse!!! these people are greedy and it shows !!! boy cot aqha until aqha does some thing about this like make it illeagl to use !!! gross !