What does the ego do? Webster defines the ego as: the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment.
One might also define the ego as: The psychic apparatus that compels some sorry piece of shit trainer to drug, beat and harass a horse into a completely artificial frame in the pursuit of a small piece of satin.
We see this a lot, in every breed and every discipline. There is not a single show system in the world that is not governed by ego. From guppies to draft horses it takes someone with a will to win to subject an animal to the processes of showing. The difference is that if you beat a guppy or a gerbil it would die. Horses, unfortunately, can take a lot of abuse before succumbing and they are usually silent about it.
Do horses enjoy human companionship? Certainly. Horses even, in some cases, enjoy the work that goes along with being ridden. I’ve seen horses jump for fun, or cut cattle with no rider on them. I’ve seen horses interact with humans in a way that makes dogs seem like pikers. Horses can love their people. However, they need people that love them back to care for them. This is usually not the case with Big Name Trainers. I’ll state right now that I’m not remotely jealous or concerned about winning anything, I have an entire king sized bed quilt that is made out of sewing together my horse show ribbons, complete with rosettes. At my age I’m happy to report and observe. I appreciate a well-trained horse. I appreciate a skilled and empathetic rider. I rarely see either in the show ring today. What I do see are horses that are bent, spurred, starved, worn-out and tortured into frames and robotic mindsets.
The hardships forced upon horses in the show ring are appalling, but what is even more ridiculous is that after being caught, suspended and/or fined for their actions the BNTs think that a few months or years after their indiscretion everyone should forgive them and they become “model citizens”, never to be sneered at or avoided again.
Here’s my take on it: Horse abusers, like child molesters, can never, ever, reform. They may not get caught doing it in public, but they are still doing it. Anyone suspended for physically abusing a horse should be banned for life. One strike and you’re out. I’m not talking about an accidental spur mark, or making a raw spot on the corner of the mouth. I’m talking about welts, edema, ripped lips, bleeding tongues, you know, like the horse, Slow Lopin Scotch, that was abused to a horrific degree while residing at Cleve Wells’ ranch. This fiasco cost Mr. Wells his Professional Horsemans’ Association card as well as a one-year suspension from AQHA and a $10,000.00 fine.
And even after all this there are still dumbasses on the Pleasure Horse Forum that are defending him. Why? Because he’s won sooooo much. I don’t give a shit if he wins the Nobel Peace Prize he’s still a complete fucktard for having a horse come off of his ranch in that condition. I suspect that in a few years the AQHA show world and all the wannabes and “excusestrians” will be lined up behind him again, worshipping his winning ways and trying to be just like him.
After physical abuse comes drugging to win. Drugging a horse with fluphenizine or reserpine in order to show it is extreme abuse. It is the ultimate in poor sportsmanship and it is a crime that should never, ever, be forgiven. If you use an anti-psychotic in order to try to win then you are a piece of shit. You have no consideration for your horse or fellow exhibitors. If you are a trainer that puts a kid on a horse that has been drugged with one of these two then you should be charged with child endangerment and sentenced to jail. You do not get a free pass back to being a “model citizen” after serving your suspension and paying your fines. You are forever a POS BNT.
The two forms of abuse are not mutually exclusive. One particular BNT trainer in the ApHC show world (think serious “Drequitation”) was busted for fluphenizine in 2003 and was also caught riding his WP horse in the warm up pen, the horse wearing a racing blinker hood, and popping the horse in the head with a stick to make it lower its head. This is a witnessed event and a complaint was filed, but subsequently shoved under the rug.
Abuse breeds abuse. Don’t ever think it doesn’t. On the days the horses aren’t getting stuck in the vein then they are getting the physical ill treatment. The constant spurring, plucking and checking show such a lack of skill it’s a wonder that real horsemen don’t run these assholes out with pitchforks and torches. We know the judges don’t have the balls to do it, especially in the ApHC, because they ride the same fricking way.
The other effect of the abuse is that the instigators of it get all offended when someone points out their past and doesn’t buy the “born again” non-horse abuser act. I really don’t care if you haven’t been busted for a few years, we all know of the back scratching and fear of retaliation that pervades the industry. Anyone with common sense knows that you haven’t changed you ways. You’re still in it for the money and the bragging rights. You’re still catering to clients and trying to sell horses. Anyone of you could be caught in the warm up pen late at night thrashing some horse. This is where video cameras and cell phone cameras are going to start catching up with you. And we all know that with the exception of a few very high end shows not every horse in every class gets drug tested. A respectable Top Ten win, on a reserpine horse, is just as good an advertisement, and less likely to get you tested, as winning. And by the way, when two BNT decided to start brawling outside the main show ring at the Reichert, because one of them is a whiney ass because the other took his client, then don't be surprised if people dump your ass because you have the maturity of a toddler. Maybe that video will make it to youtube one day.
I can already hear the Pleasure Horse Forum screeching about “forgiveness” once the suspension is over. Bullshit! There is no forgiveness for a person that abuses or drugs a harmless animal. The fact that most of the people on the forum have a moral compass that endorses and even supports this attitude tells you how sorry-assed the pleasure horse industry is. They even came out in support of a trainer that used fluphenizine on a horse because “he’d done his time” and he’s an “angel” now. Then they started trashing a person that spoke out against his past actions and started trashing her facility even though none of the sorry wannabes had ever personally seen it. I found this ironic since the one wannabe is nothing more than an ex-groom and has never shown a high level winner in her life. Perhaps she’s dreaming of the day she too can jab a needle in a vein and compete with the rest of the incompetents. Nothing like ass-kissing with the PHF to make your career. Oh, and according to the PHF denizens the poor horse-abusing trainer just had his poor wittle reputation ruined because someone brought up his past behavior. What a crock of shit! He ruined his own reputation by drugging the horse with an anti-psychotic. I’d barf, but I’d hate to replace this laptop.
Here’s the deal: There is no forgiveness for abuse or drugging. You do not get a free pass back into being a reputable trainer. And even more to the point: You stupidly brought it on yourself and can’t blame anyone for being such a fucking moron. Here’s another clue: No one that discusses your past is the bad guy! You are!
Let’s put public recognition and abominable behavior in perspective: In 1938 Adolf Hitler was voted Time Magazine’s Man of the Year. Yeah, we all know what he went on to do. And we all know that there are a bunch of sheet-wearing dumb asses out there that still condone his actions, because his goals and theirs are the same: to win at all costs, no matter whom you hurt or kill. Some show people are the exact same way. They want to win, no matter how many horses they go through while reaching for that worthless piece of satin.
I’ll end this blog with one of my favorite quotes by Thomas C. Haliburton:
“The only way to reform some people is to chloroform them.”
I couldn’t agree more.
34 comments:
Right on, my friend. And on that note, I encourage everyone to listen to the interviews posted on the Sound Horse Conference website. Click here. I truly believe the abuse the TWH suffers is beyond cruel and borders on S&M.
I also suggest everyone listen to one of my bestest of best friends, Dr. Pam Reband, talk about being a former sore horse trainer and owner. Click here. This story is awesome because she talks about how as we speak, children are being taught how to sore horses. You're absolutely right, TJM: abuse begets abuse. We can NEVER forget that.
It's very rare indeed that people choose to show because they enjoy the challenge of bettering themselves. Honestly, I am venturing into dressage just to learn it, not to compete. Plus, if my foal comes out gaited, there are, um, let's see, ZERO gaited horse dressage shows in AZ. So I'll be at a loss. But it isn't that big of a deal for me. If I get the urge to compete, I will find a way. But I've watched people go from enjoying the challenge of working hard with their horse to BlueRibbonitis. It's upsetting, to say the least.
I have to say, though, to give people a small ray of light: I am working with a 14-yo girl right now on getting her formerly mechanical (supposedly not sored, but most likely was pressure shod) TWH to gait naturally for showing. She will see people who beat on their horses at the gymkhanas she goes to and is sickened. She and her mother were very apprehensive at first when they asked me to work with them. They got out their horse's bit, about a 10" shank high port bit. I asked them politely do you always ride him in that bit? She said no, it is his old show bit. She quietly said her horse hates it. I said GOOD--throw it away. I don't think I've seen someone's face light up quite the way hers did.
I also judged a 4-H finals show last Friday. I judged the Beginner and Intermediate English classes, and I have to say that the majority of the riders had good hands and great seats, and they weren't snatching on their horses' mouths or giving them crap. I was very, very happy to see them treating their animals so well. The show moms were great--they were very concerned about the care of the horses and made sure the kids and the animals were happy. It was a shock for me since I've seen some 4-H gymkhanas where it looked like the horses mouths would be ripped open.
I also have a local trainer who seems to be curious about what I do with my students. He is a old-school gaited horse trainer--snatch their head up to get them to gait. But he sees what I'm doing and seems to be curious to try something different. I always just chat with him and won't step on his toes--he and I have conflicting ideas, but I don't worry about it. My student that boards her horse at his place will make her own choices, and I know she'll pick what's right for her horse and a lasting partnership.
So, there are some kids out there that are doing it right, and some adults who consider and even follow through with change (I've done it myself). We just have to keep educating them the right way without being pushy. It can be done!
Hear hear! And amen!
Brilliant, TJM.
Thank you.
I agree with you fully, 100% on this post.
As a current dabbler, former high level shower on the western horse circuit, I have shown AQHA, and ApHC at the congress, national and world level and currently have a top end APHA that is not being shown. From the knowledge that I have acquired through the years, not that I know anywhere near everything, but I think I have a basis of knowledge, I JUST DO NOT GET IT!!!
I work my lazy, lazy western horse daily to get "forward" and "collection" in the same stride, so why would you do all the things that are being done to take the forward OUT of them (fatigue, bleeding, drugging), and not have a horse that is sloppy legged? Why would THAT win? If I was to drug down my horse, or even over work him, he would drag badly.
I "understand" the pick, pick, pick...I have to watch myself to not get in that habit, but I just don't GET the drugging, or the tail blocking, unless a horse wrings his tail, IT IS ALWAYS WRONG, but at least I understand the purpose. Why would you want a horse to look like you just kicked him in the butt?
When a person acts off of ego, there is usually a pay off, the win. I just don't understand the current fads (and I know they are not just in stock horse breeds). Most things have SOME purpose, a lot of the fads just don't.
Need to edit the "blocking tail" comment.....IT IS ALWAYS WRONG, but at least I understand WHY it was done, if done on a tail wringer, I was NOT saying that it is wrong unless done on a tail wringer.
Smurfette, it would be better to find out why the horse is wringing his tail, and to fix that problem, rather than to remove the poor horse's ability to use his tail.
I FRICKIN' LOVE YOU TJM.
thankyouverymuch.
*STANDING OVATION!*
Agreed, agreed, agreed.
You hit the nail on the head, as usual.
I might be showing my TB in open halter classes this year. I wonder what all the other exhibitors will think when they see him without any kind of enhancement other than Show Sheen and hoof polish, and they're standing there with their horses all dolled up in fake accessories. My horse doesn't need a fake tail or greased face to catch the judge's eye. No horse does. But it has a lot to do with trends. One person sees a fake tail on a winning horse, so everybody starts using fake tails, regardless of whether it had anything to do with the horse winning.
Tail extensions are only supposed to be used on the stock breeds, but around here, almost everybody uses them. I don't even want to know how many horses are drugged.
PR,
You go without the grease and fake tail, girl! I can't stand face grease--it looks horrible to me.
I kept looking for the links to the cell phone video from the Scottsdale show...
They would certainly be fitting, given most of the text of the post.
Otherwise I agree with the post. Everything and all of it!
The asshats should be run out of dodge with pitchforks and other things. And not just by those of us who are doing things right, playing by the rules and competeing FAIRLY. The owners should be outraged that their horse was treated this way or that, for the sake of a win.
WHY the fuck people choose to stand behind and support them for cheating at all costs for a cheap piece of silk, is beyond me. Just shows they must have slept through or just plain ditched class when ethics and morals were being discussed.
Pass the chloroform, or else I will be using a shovel and swinging for the fence instead.
I like a LITTLE bit of "face grease around the eyes & muzzle, but not real shiny.
SPF 50 sunblock works pretty well.
Just enough for that dewey look.
Fake tails! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Remember when breed standard for all stock breeds called for a tail that ended a little below the hocks?? and how if you had a "banged" tail in any class, you were dumb, because you obviously cut instead of pulled the tail?
Fake tails are sooooo stupid. And OBVIOUS 95% of the time.
So ..... if I was showing hunters now, I'd have to use hoof black instead of a nice coating of hooflex?
Do AQHA people still do the weird rubber band mane?
And Arabs with mile-long bridle paths....
and where the heck do you even GET chloroform?
Katphoti- You judged Finals? I wasn't there as our client bought their own horse and went it on their own...
She would have been in the intermediates unless the 'new horse clause' got her another year in beginners.
Email me if you like. I'll drop a name there. I would also be curious as to who you are learning dressage under. Maybe it's time we get some Gaited Dressage shows going. There's plenty of gaited horses out here for it!
CP- I bet we could make some if need be. Johnie Rotten took organic chemistry and aced it.
Of course he and his lab partner damn near blew the place up... but we won't speak of that.
And what is up with the hooflex fascination in hunters. OoooOOOOOoooohhhh! It makes the coronet band blend in, but all the dirt and gunk sticks to it.
I confess that I like how Hooflex smells.
And for like 20 seconds, before the dust collects on it, it makes the hooves look all elegant.
I used to collect little sample jars of the Equicare hoof stuff for my own nails.
I remember, long ago, a boy I knew had the most awesomest buckskin named Burt.
Well... he'd put BROWN hoof polish on ol' Burt, and he himself had an all-brown ensemble, even his hunt cap was brown!
ANYway.
Now that show season's about upon us, I fully expect tons of activity on here!
(*ahem* TMJ)
JS/CP- Hoof polish I can understand, hooflex for the similar effect? Um, no.
See and our show season is damn near over. We show usually Sept- April, a few shows in May, fewer still in June, July and August due to extreme heat.
We are showing while in other areas it's snowing.
HA.... it's just now getting warm up here !!!! it's low 70s and rain this week....
but the flowers are AWESOME!!!!!
The leaves came out on the trees this week, too.
I can't see myself living any further south, unless it involved mountains.
Horse shows don't get serious around here till school lets out....
oh, it USED to be that you'd OIL hunter hooves.... hoof black was RIGHT OUT.
______
There was a greatconversation on Fugly about the evils of Arabian halter....
It will NEVER EVER fail to amaze me that people breed big ol' hayburners around for nothing other than halter! And they can even find ways to abuse them THERE.
I mean, get show dogs.
Good post. The show world seems to create the worse. Too many people do not think of the horse as a living being. Too many people see the abuse as just the way things are done. Maybe they are back to the days of thinking that animals do not feel pain and have no feelings but are just mechanical beings. Maybe those people have died inside.
sagebeasties.blogspot.com
CNJ,
I kept looking for the links to the cell phone video from the Scottsdale show...Which video is that? Did I miss this? Or are you talking about that insane driving class video? That was in OK, not AZ.
The owners should be outraged that their horse was treated this way or that, for the sake of a win.Okay, REALLY, do you think that all the owners are innocent? Okay, wait, I know you don't. :) Honestly, in the TWH world, we're fighting to make the owners more responsible for sending their horses to sore horse trainers. They absolutely KNOW their horses are being sored. They ask those kinds of questions to make sure their horses will win. "Can you fix 'em" and the like means "can you sore 'em so he'll win."
Yes, I did judge the finals. It was last minute--the girl who was going to do it had to go to Ohio for a family emergency. It was great--I really enjoyed it. I'll email you about it.
As far as dressage lessons, I've only gleened basic techniques from two of my gaited horse masters and then what I've read about in Dressage Today and books. I actually need to find a good dressage place to take lessons from that doesn't do Rolkur.
However, the other English classes judge trains horses to drive, AND she's located in Queen Creek! I FINALLY found someone to teach my horses to drive!
BTW, had the ultrasound on my mare today. No baby. :(
Jay,
I mean, get show dogs.Show dogs are abused almost worse than horses. They don't get to eat for days to maintain show weight, kept in cramped crates as they're driven all over the country with very little breaks, surgical changes to get them to look a certain way.... And the people...OMG THE PEOPLE. Although cat show people are THE MOST insane. (No offense to anyone who shows cats on here--I've just had a lot of VERY WEIRD experiences when I worked at a cat hospital.)
I can't see myself living any further south, unless it involved mountains.We have TONS of mountains here in AZ! Phoenix is in a valley, so mountains surround us! If we head about 200 miles north of Phoenix, you're in Flagstaff, which is 20+ degrees cooler than Phoenix. Plus you should see the view of the Superstition Mountains outside my front window!
But yeah, it's hot....
OldMorgans,
Maybe those people have died inside.BRA-VO, my friend. Here here!
Heh... there are SCARY CRITTERS in the desert!! ;)
Plus, I'm totally in Spring Mode right now - everything is getting so lush, and it's not hot & sticky yet.
My mom's been to Flagstaff and Prescott a lot. She likes them much better than Phoenix. She REALLY likes Sedona, which cracks me up. She's about as New Age as.... my car. Totally, feet of CLAY.
Show Dogs: I guess I was looking at it from the standpoint "if you're going to have an animal that trit trots around the ring on a string, why feed/train a bunch of horses?" More of a cost/benefit thing.
Yeah. I actually think that dog people are slightly more normal than horse people and cat people.
Oh wait... animal people in general are .. .different. The whole continuum from "pleasantly eccentric" to "batshit psycho hosebeasts."
Did I hear somewhere that cosmetic surgery for animals is illegal in the UK? Floppy eared Dobermans and swishy tailed Jack Russels??
There was a chapter in one of the Black Beauty "sequels" by one of the Pullein-Thompsons... Victorian England, and a cute mare with a perfect star - she describes in excruciating detail what an unscrupulous dealer did to her to MAKE that star.
At least you can take off a stupid fake tail... soring, tail blocking, etc. are a lot more damaging.
I wonder if anyone's tried to slip in a Neuticle to hide an undescended testicle....
"Maybe those people have died inside."
That is the best explanation yet!! : )
Great post. Right on the point.
It has always been illegal in Europe to do ears and tails of dogs. Lots of folks in the US are beginning to follow suit.
Sandmarc, that makes me HAPPY!!!!
Although I do know a good number of people who don't know any better.
"He HAS to get his ears done. He's a Doberman!"
"She HAS to get her tail done. It's her breed!!"
This from PET owners, not dog show people.
Heck... I wouldn't even circumcise a little boy. ; )
I remember when my gastroenterologist paid over $30K for a horse (AQHA, WP) she knew was nerved. In fact, she talked 'em down in price TO that point.
I just looked at her.
WHERE do you even start?????
cattypex,
Declawing is also illegal in Europe. THANK GOD. Overall, I hate animal mutilation for human convenience.
I see what you meant about dog shows now. Plus, selling dogs is much more profitable. I know a woman who went from breeding, buying and reselling TWHs to dobermans. Why? Because her dogs, which have very rare bloodlines, can sell for $2500 a pop, and with just one litter of 12, that pays her mortgage for a year and then some. She has more litters than that each year and rotates studs and bitches.
Anyway, it costs her next to nothing to breed, feed, and vaccinate the dogs, when breeding, raising, feeding, training, riding, shoeing, etc. of one horse that she knows will only sell for $2500...well, you guys know the math.
Katphoti- the video speak of is of two trainers from the Arab show and another of an Ammy on in english horse.
It is the same cell phone video clips Cathy spoke of on FHOTD, but hasn't posted.
Horrid to say the least.
As for owners being outraged- they certainly should be. Should, of course being the operative word, of course.
Instead, as you know too well, some of them seek out the abusive assholes merely for their 'winning' record. It is up to the owners to either speak up for their horse or look the other way, drink a bit more bubbly beverages and celebrate while their horse is in agony for having won the ribbons they so cherish.
If you are wanting dressage lessons, call me. JR would be happy to work with you on your own horse. There is NO legitimate reason a gaited horse cannot benefit from the same basics of dressage. You can learn on your horse, or use one of ours if you wish. I'll call you later anyways about a gaited horse I may have a tip on...
____________________
CP-
There was a chapter in one of the Black Beauty "sequels" by one of the Pullein-Thompsons... Victorian England, and a cute mare with a perfect star - she describes in excruciating detail what an unscrupulous dealer did to her to MAKE that star.
here is a book called Horsetrading and a sequel called More Horsetrading. I haven't laid my hands on either one, but they are full of stuff as you described.
Wrapping a horses legs in hot potatoes so the hair and skin were burnt. Scars often grow back in white hair on colored horses. Quick easy way to make a nicley 'matched', perfectly marked team.
Filing or floating the horses teeth down so far as to make them look like those of a younger horse, is reffered to as "bishoping" as a church bishop was the first one to do this. He then sold the horses off as being younger than they were...
So many other ways of cheating god folks out of money and misrepresenting horses, other than just swapping the papers on a registered horse to a grade and seling the grade off as Mr. Prospect!
Kat, that last one your semi-neighbor on Smoketree has been accused of this and worse in the past... but I am sure you are wary of her ways. *wink*
And yes CP, someone has tried slipping in a neuticle for appearances sake. It was one of the bigger names, (as in BIG enough everyone would probably know) but I can't remember exactly who and I won't name names until I know for sure.
I can't wait for stiffer penalities for bad behavior and drugging. I have been calling for it for years on the racetrack, the show ring and the polo fields are no different. Why is every organization afraid to make stiff penalties or bans and why aren't we in the equestrian world insisting on it?
You & me both.
I know!! Why the hell was it EVER tolerated in the first place!?!?!!??!!?!??!?!?!
When did "cheating" become "the way it's done"?
OK, that's the whole purpose of this blog, I know.
:P
CP-
I know!! Why the hell was it EVER tolerated in the first place!?!?!!??!!?!??!?!?!
NO SHIT!!!!!
When the judges were actually horsemen and could spot the 'floaters' (cheating turds!) a mile off, WHEN, WHY and HOW on this planet did the tide shift to rewarding the scum for showing their lame, drugged and otherwise abused animals?
If our horse is 'off', a bit underweight or has issues needing to be worked out, we keep them at home until everything is right in their world again. The horses don't care about the ribbons, plaques, saddle, checks or any other incentives they won for you. And yes, the horse won it for you, because you didn't do the pattern, the spins or jump the course all by your little bad self!
The horses care only that they are fed, watered and turned out to roll. The last one usually in the sloppiest spot they can find, in relation to how much time and effort you put into cleaning them up! LOL!
Can we all please go back to how things were before? Or can the 'floaters' just go on competeing by themselves and leave the horses out of it altogether?
I've heard more than once from people who have said their trainers have suggested their horse would do better if they injected thier tails .. you can't say it doesn't still happen.. and people who WANt to win bad enough will agree to it. Shame on them. One of those had her horse w Shaffer at the time so I wonder WHO she was talking about.. this stuff continues to go on because it is condoned.
There are plenty of rules on the books the problem is they are not enforced~ and they won't be until you get the foxes out of the henhouse. eg.. trainers and judges off the Board of Directors.
I find a judge who is also a trainer to be a conflict of interest. To have them on the BOD even more so.
The Associations have become nothing more than 'good ol' boy club'. They look out for thier own interests and those intersts are in drumming up more buisness for themselves and it has NOTHING to do with the mission statement of promoting the breed.
They are in it to promote themselves.
Until you have judges that are free agents that enforce the rules and refuse to look the other way when this chit happens and is reported you will NEVER get rid of the problems.
When it cost you 250.00 to FILE a complaint and it is not reimbursed when the complaint is substantiated. THAT is wrong. If the club won't investigate then perhaps they need to pay an INDEPENDANT vet to be at the shows to monitor what goes on and see that things are kept humane and legal.
CindyWa,
Good points, everything.
The Associations have become nothing more than 'good ol' boy club'. They look out for thier own interests and those intersts are in drumming up more buisness for themselves and it has NOTHING to do with the mission statement of promoting the breed.It's funny you mention that. I was just doing some research and was wondering what the AQHA mission statement is. It turns out there's NOTHING in there about the welfare of the horses. It is in the by-laws, which is how Cleve Wells got served, but the mission statement only talks about promoting the breed and AQHA, which I think translates to line the AQHA's pockets. See below:
To record and preserve the pedigrees of the American Quarter Horse while maintaining the integrity of the breed.
To provide beneficial services for its members that enhance and encourage American Quarter Horse ownership and participation.
To develop diverse educational programs, material and curriculum that will position AQHA as the leading resource organization in the equine industry.
To generate growth of AQHA membership via the marketing, promotion, advertising and publicity of the American Quarter Horse.
Late to the party....but it might be good do some further reading on lordosis. The concensus is that many of these horses can continue to be ridden and even shown if (1) their backs are not tender and (2) they have a properly fitted saddle.
I was interested after finding the blog for Guns and White Roses, and did some further reading of some university studies.
That swaybacked buddy in the pasture may still have plenty of get up and go...
zk
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